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Question time House of Commons March 8th 2006:

from here (about 2/3 down the page)

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=...8a.868.5#g874.2

Thnks to Stephan for this - he's an ex-pupil of a Vardy school - check out his site:

http://www.freewebs.com/cityacademies/blognews.htm

This may sound strange but I find this rather reassuring. I completely understand the desire for a public honour and if the motivation of a benefactor is to gain one then it seems a not unreasonable compromise. Like the way we honour sportsmen, win a gold medal and you get an MBE, it's not why people enter sport but it's a fair bonus for being good at it. If someone wants a Knighthood then they invest in a school, build a wing on an art gallery, fund a new hospital ward.

I worry about darker motivations that are not so obvious, so if a 'Big Homeopathy Company' (I guess there aren't such things but you get the point) bought a hospital wing I'd worry a lot more.

Tethys

That's actually a good point. Certainly "I wanna get a knighthood" (cos their ears are cold in bed?) is a far more innocent motivation than "I wanna indoctrinate lots of kids into my favourite belief system".

Buying Knighthoods is now illegal ( although it wasn't always Lloyd George infamously sold loads of gongs).

However dishing out some cash for a favourite political project of the Prime Minister as a way of getting around this stinks to me. But then the whole hounors system does. If you win a gold medal - then that's yoiur reward isn't it? Aren't Christians supposed to get their rewards in heaven? Rewards for acheivement that would otherwise go unrecognised might be justified - although dipping into your fat wallet for one of the governments pet project doesn't seem like much of an acheivement to me. Vardy's true acheivement was to make a pile of money from selling used cars -reward enough I'd say.

Richard Dawkins has made a far more significant contribution to society than Peter Vardy - although I suspect if he was offered a knighthood he'd decline it.

I know we disagree with his views, and deplore the teaching of creationism as science, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to celebrate the fact that someone has put some of their hard-earned cash into improving standards of education in a deprived area. Surely better than the usual honours which seem to just reward people for being able to make lots of money.

The more I hear about it (e.g. from the ex-students on the C4 forum), the more I feel that my only beef with the Vardy schools is the creationism. I'm not even totally convinced any more that there is a suppression of freedom of expression in class discussions, though I'm looking for more evidence.

If I were stuck in a deprived area, without all the nice middle-class options like moving to a better catchment area or paying for education, I'd send my (hypothetical) kids there, and just exercise my right to opt them out of assembly and RE lessons if I felt that was necessary.

While I admit my opinion on peerages and such is utterly worthless, since I'm a Yank and all, I have to say I understand the desire to be knighted.

For most people I've ever talked to here, it's sort of like a cinderella dream to us. You know, the whole "I was travelling around London on a visit, minding my own business, when something bad almost happened, but I jumped in heroically and saved HRH the Queen, and so she had a big ceremony, and put this medal on me, and I kneeled down, and she tapped me on the shoulders with a sword, and said 'arise Sir Lou' and there was a big foamy beer party, and now all the famous pretty people love me, and I'm rich, and I have a coat of arms."

It sort of explains (without excusing) the American penchant for displaying heraldry. It's really not about disrespecting Europeans, it's ignorance of the rules and fantasy.

That having been said, doing something just for a knighthood seems pretty crass to me, and cheapens the whole idea of the fantasy.

And that having been said, if HRH ever needs saving from something, do give me a call first.

Pretty much every country has some form of honours system, including the USA. Ours is somewhat old-fashioned but I still like the 'character' it's accumulated. As for Richard Dawkins I would hope that he will be offered an honour at some point and with any luck he'd accept, a club is only as interesting as its members so he'd add a lot of kudos (at least as far as I'm concerned).

I don't have children but I suspect I couldn't be tempted to send them to a Vardy school, still who knows what decision I'd make if I was actually in that position......

If we were handing out honours, how about one for Fred Sanger? He's British (born in Gloucestershire) and spent his career at Cambridge. He won the Nobel Prize for Chemistry in 1958 and then won it again in 1980. Frankly that's quite impressive

I rather fancy a Knighthood myself, mainly so I could justify wearing chainmail around the house, it's just so comfortable

Ok, now I'm thinking...

What on earth would the US have that could even compare to a knighthood? There's that Presidential Medal of Freedom thing, but that's not even in the same ballpark (or football pitch, if you prefer) especially given the current president. There are military honors, but every country has those, and I'd say it's just different.

I don't know, maybe it's the whole age and tradition, pomp and circumstance thing for us, or just the whole grandness of royalty, maybe just the desire to be publicly recognized as "special".

It's interesting, however, that Americans are so enamoured of such things, given the row about them a few hundred years ago. I have a cousin who was simply mesmerized by the Princess of Wales from the first time she saw her on the TV. She collected every picture, news article, doll, anything at all having to do with her. Still has every scrap of it, AFAIK. She's still miffed at Charles, though.

I think the British royal family is more popular in the US than in the UK...

Sort of like how my kids are more popular with the folks who don't have to live with them?

It would be interesting whether he'd have sponsered the schools if he wasn't allowed to have them as christian as they are, my guess is probably not but maybe Im just being cynical.

I wonder if Cliff Richard, Elton John, Rudi Juliani, Sean Connery etc realise that in the event of a civil war they will be called to fight for the Queen?

Tethys your right I have no idea why Fred Sanger hasn't been knighted, youd think two of the most important discoveries in biology of th epast 100 years and two nobel prizes would to the trick.

Those guys were sold short - this guy managed to get nominated to the House of Lords - our unelected and undemocratic 'Upper House':

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/st...1734384,00.html

Yes being able to buy yourself a peerage is even more worrying. I used to be a big critic of the house of lords but I've decide to stop as long as they keep trying to stop certain legislation getting through. The fact that in many cases the unelected house represents the peoples views better than the house of commons is both worrying and ironic.

Yes, you have to worry when the only effective political protest is from the House of Lords, the Islamic Channel, The Simpsons and the script of Doctor Who...

I am uneasy with the way this thread is going. Support Academies an get a knighthood, yes, but it seems to me that anything else is off the topic of our campaign.

We have not been insituted, to my knowledge, to reform the house of lords or to attack Tony Blair, attractive as that might be to some of us.