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Hello all,

I'm a bit chuffed because I've been invited by the BBC to put a question on creationism in education to the Archbishop of York in a programme to be transmitted on Radio 4 on Sunday.

However, I have a few problems I want to get sorted out before the programme is recorded on Thursday afternoon.

Basically, John Mackay, formerly of AiG and now with Creation Research Ministries, is touring the UK in April-June and appears to have got himself access to three state schools in Lancashire to teach creationism. In one case he is being given a full three days to push his hocus pocus onto secondary school children,

However, which three schools are involved is being kept secret on the grounds that the press will distort and mis-inform the public as to what is going on. The nutters are claiming that the media are all atheist.

Therefore even the parents don't appear to know that their children will be taught by Mackay.

It appears that one of the schools is CofE and therefore Mackay will be teaching stuff that the CoF has condemned - see Rowan Williams statement last month.

It is this issue I want to raise with the Archbishop.

However, I don't know what the names of the three schools are. I have telephoned Lancashire County Council and they are looking into it but I am not certain that I will get a reply by Thursday.

If I can find out the names of the schools, it will make my question to the Archbishop much more effective.

The riumour mill suggests that St Aidan's in Wyre, a CofE secondary school, is one but I can't get confirmation.

Does anyone in the group have any ideas how to get this info. I am doing a trawl at the moment but need to keep my telephone bills down.

Thanks

Roger Stanyard

- can't think how to help but good luck!

Hi Roger,

I have been on BBC radio before (it isn't Radio Cumberland by any chance is it?) and I found mainly that you don't get sufficient time to say what you want to say so in that sense you need to prepare some very short responses to questions or accusations that might come up.

If it is of interest to you I recorded (now on MP3) the program I was on.

Kyu

Post it somewhere Kyu!

how about at 'Rapidshare' or something if it's a bit of a big file.

I'd agree about the time thing - the trick is to try to hit home one or maybe two hard-hitting points rather than try to explain complexities. (Perhaps I could be our resident SJS 'spin doctor'??????)

For my sins I am an Anglican Vicar in Lancashire 10 miles from St Aidans school.

I am trying to get something done about all this nonsense and in 2003 I "debated "Mackay near here, I will comment on that shortly.



there are several Anglican clergy hitting the roof about this along with a Christian FRS (there are a fair number of them!)

Any other information will be well received by me.

Michael

PS ask the Archbishop who is a great guy whether he thinks it right for Christians to employ dishonest methods in this YEC fraud? Ask if it is OK to break the 9th Commandment?

The church needs to pull its finger out on all this crap. (what a mixed metaphor!)

I have been in touch with a local reporter who is going to deal with it it.

It is possibly Millfield School in Thornton. I think st Aidan's in Preesall is unlikely

If Roger is in Lancashire please can he contact me.

Michael

OK ...

Here's the radio files ...

Radio Cumberland 1

Radio Cumberland 2

... please don't laugh at my pathetic first appearance on radio!!!!!

Kyu

While I'm all for writing letters of concern to the appropriate authorities, I think we should be very careful about just how much the media is involved. It's the tendency of the press to present a 'balanced viewpoint', an approach which can only work in the favour of the Creationists as they seek to foster the impression with the public that some kind of debate is needed about Evolution. Perhaps it would be more fruitful if future lectures were to proceed with minimal interference (and, as much as possible, publicity) then be followed up with an information pack about Evolution and an offer to present a second lecture to pupils explaining Evolution?

I'm based in Lancashire if you need a contact in the area.

Hello Jim,

welcome to the campaign!

I agree about being careful about how we approach the media.

I disagree with your assessment about a 'balanced viewpoint' for most of the media by the way, in my experience most of them are interested only in what sells newspapers, and if that's unbalanced and sensationalist then fine. It's only really a couple of the quality newspapers that are likely to 'balance' the editorials, we just have to make sure the pro-science one is spot on and makes all the right points.

Nice thylacine by the way

Thanks for the welcome!

I should have used the term opposing view rather than balancing viewpoint. I wasn't talking about the bias of articles on this subject but rather the fact that the viewpoint of Creationists will always tend to be included. This works out nicely for them as it fosters the false 'Evolutionist versus Creationist' perspective which is exactly what they want.
After more consideration I think this is inevitable anyway so sod it.

I;'m not at all convince about the approaches given here.

Look, the creationists see us as weak liberals who have been misguided by rationality, reason and modernity. They work on the basis that this is all wrong and they are right. Most of us (I hope) do listen to the other presons view - that's how we learn. They just see it as a sign of weakness, depravity, sin or whatever.

So, that being so, kick them very hard in the balls at every available opportunity. Do it on our terms, not their's. Mackay is a lying fraud who is taunting us over the name of the school in Lancashire where he is spending three days. Take for granted he is earning more money in doing so than you or me. Take for granted that it is not his taxes that are paying for the school - it's your taxes. Scream this from the high heavens. Scream that he has fallen out with his AiG friends and let him prove that you are wrong.

It isn't Mackay's business what goes on in British schools. He's an imposter.

He's a first class fraud - that's your strength and his weakness. Taunting us is the evidence.

You know the game - British people are easy going and liberal but only up to the point where your being used, Mackay doesn't understand that - he's a redneck school teacher from the other side of the world.

Sorry to have to lay it out bluntly but Mackay is a dangerous enemy.

Put another way, if you want to get at these buggers, look at your strengths and your weaknesses - then do it for the enemy. That's standard business school stuff.

Roger Stanyard

I totally agree with you Roger.

The school is probably Millfield.

There is a lot of stirring going on in Lancashire now.

Many simply do not realise what is going on

I absolutely agree with this ...

... the problem is that the British public won't! That is why we have to proceed cleverly and with caution.

Kyu

I absolutely agree with this ...

... the problem is that the British public won't! That is why we have to proceed cleverly and with caution.

Kyu

So what do you suggest Kyu?